Different cultures have different views and positions for their gods, even if they have the same name, so I think they adapt the stories to their culture and their uses for the gods.
I aggree with lily, cultures with multiple gods seem to have a god for different purposes, like gods for love and marraige, and gods that are there to make life easy, but wen you do wrong there are gods of torture and hell that you just don't want to do anything to anger or if you do something else that the good gods basically hand you over to those gods of cruelty, or society can always basically can just always have something to strive for
In the Babylonian Religion section, last paragraph, it says "the Babylonians believed that human beings had to make the most of their lives, in a world that lacked security and hope." How do you think this connects to todays society, if at all? Do we lack security and/or hope? Do we strive to make the most of our lives?
In todays world, most religions have a better afterlife. So I dont believe we lack security or hope because we have different religions where afterlife is more of a paradise. Although even with this paradise for an afterlife we still seem to make the most of our present lives.
I think because a majority of people have a christian based faith, there is hope. There is a very clear expectation of the afterlife that is positive, not so destitute as the mesopotamian idea of the afterlife. In layman's term, more people have faith that when they die, they will go to heaven.
I do think humans today are more aware that life is short and you have to make the most of it while you are still here, because today there are many different beliefs as to what happens to you after you die, so we don't know anything for sure. The concept of "you only live once" I think is an example of people today trying and experiencing new and exotic things, because they don't know for sure what happens for them after their life.
I think we struggle to make the most of our lives with the many "blinding" things we go through such as being too focused on money and saying "we'll eventually have the time or money to do that(anything out of the ordinary)." However I see many people going for it and doing things out of their comfort zone too
I think we still lack security, because you can never have 100% security as long as you have some amount of freedom. I think we have hope though because the world has changed and we have things to look forward to other than just farming for the rest of our lives.
The Mesopotamian's probably gave the gods the characteristics they did so they could feel more in touch with them. It would've been hard to connect with something you don't understand.
The gods differ from culture to culture because for each religion, the idea of a god, or what the gods purpose is changes, it is all perspective. In one religion, the god of the air could be one thing, and in an other religion it could mean something completely different, but the religions could be very similar.
The gods, according to Enuma elish, were the only ones to exist in the beginning. They were given all of the power to begin with and did not know anything different. This is why they ended up creating a universe and "man"... "His job will be to serve the gods so that they may rest at ease." (pg. 158)
i think that they have so much influence because people didnt know much better. They were brought up thinking it was true so people let the gods influence their lives, and gave the gods the authority.
I know for the Middle Eastern gods Magic was very important on the first page it says this "the ability to perform magic tricks was considered proof of the ability to govern the world." The more magic you have the more powerful you are.
I am confused about why, if the gods are so powerful, they would choose to fight each other rather than just destroy each other quickly and effectively.
I think the gods back then were more like humans. So I think it was more of a pride thing. Also if the gods just destroyed each other whenever they got mad at each other then the gods and goddesses would just be in constant war.
So then what makes one god more powerful than another? Like in the story it says that one of the gods was a "double god." What decides who is more powerful?
A lot of the time the gods must prove their power. So if one proves himself more than another, whether it is through magic tricks or strength and power, then they are seen are more powerful.
Hello Bloggers!I was wondering why the sumarian/ babylonian people portrayed the gods to be unpredictable in comparison to egyptian gods such as Isis who was described to be " a loyal and loving mother figure..."?
I think that it might have to deal with the flooding, the Nile is much more constant from year to year in where/how long/when it floods, while the Tigris and Euphrates are not as constant, so I feel like the gods portray what creates their society (The river(s)).
I think that it is due to education. We now know a lot more bout the world's past then we did 15-20 years ago. I think with that information it allows us to have different thinking about myths and if something happened or not.
Tiffani- I think that myths were something that were passed down generationally, probably by mouth usually. Personally I think it is mostly technology that has made myths not so popular. Because we have so much entertainment and social media and gossip about our own lives, myths are not as exciting because information goes around so fast.
Myths are still popular now, however they come in different forms instead of just religious stories. Education does play a huge role in the number of myths because since time has past--thousands of years since the Enuma elish, the advancement of sciences has allowed us to understand and prove the things that happen around us. Back then, they didn't have that knowledge.
Tiffani- the myths are a cultural thing, each culture has a different story or idea that somehow relates to their background. in the middle east, they believed that Mesopotamia was a god given piece of land referring to the rivers that surrounded them. to them that meant the world to their culture Which left them thinking about how does something so great happen to them? they start to think maybe a magical power of some sort. since America is unique and technologically advanced, things change over time and soon the myths start to fade away.
In Greek mythology we learned that many Greeks didn't actually believe in the gods and they just told the stories for entertainment purposes. I imagine that the Enuma Elish is similar and it was more of a cultural thing than a religious thing. So I think because they don't have TV or books they would just tell the stories to each other and that's how they spread. That doesn't happen today because we already have so many stories in books and nobody sits around and tells stories orally anymore.
Dylan - I agree with this and also think that the people thought that their prosperity relied on the gods, as they were the ones who controlled the weather and atmosphere (Ex: Tigris & Euphrates Rivers, soil for crops, etc.)
To Brendan's question, the altering of Gods and Goddesses to change the stories of the Sumarian and Babylonian cultures does change the stories, however the main idea is pretty much the same. Since the Sumarians came first, the Babylonians were greatly influenced by their polytheistic religion based on the geographic location. In order for the people of these societies to make sense of the world, they created stories involving the natural forces of the Earth being controlled by different gods for the reason why things happen, which in return involves human worship.
I think that respect is respect no matter what. However, if it comes through fear there is always a chance that the respect will be lost if they no longer fear the god.
No. I think that respect should be earned and be for a good reason. Especially because once you are released from a power/leader who reigns by instilling fear, it seems like most people wouldn't know what to do, and would be so used to living under someone else's strong control that they would gravitate towards that and want it again, even if it is subconsciously.They will not feel comfortable making their own choices for subconscious fear that it could be wrong.
Garrett: I think its okay in certain situations. You wouldn't want to have respect for someone is making you fearful. On the other hand you would respect someone if they protected you in a fearful situation.
I think myths were so popular back then, because those were the stories that they were told and now we have the resources to prove if the myth is true or not.
Yeah, I agree. Back then they didn't have the knowledge to explain how most of the world worked, so it seems like they just kinda winged it and made up an explanation that made sense to them. Today though advancements in technology and scientific discoveries make a lot of myths seem far fetched
I think there are modern myths, maybe they are more "out there" like big foot and the lockness monster however there are stories that are told around the world.
Wen the higharchy creates stories to answer questions that society has that creates problems. Mainly because the changes that the religions devlope just happen to be things that society either respects or fears. Like the nile they respect the water and they also believe that everything they did would please the gods and thats what they lived for, so they did what they could to serve the gods and they feared that if they didn't, important parts of their lives would be altered such as the nile. Sam makes a good point as well as trying to find someone to praise wen things go right, and someone/thing to point a finger at wen things are going wrong.
While I read the history and background of the middle east, I read the phrase, "order emerged out of chaos," as a repeated phrase. To me this is saying that people depend on something in order to get through life easier. Because that's what religion is, a creation by humans in order for us to be able to depend on something, to get through life easier. A question asked was, "who would create stories like this, who would believe this?" It only takes one person, who has some power over everyone else, who has a strong belief, and a group of people who need hope.
I think people today try living like its their last day. I think we do lack security and/ or hope due to the idea of always trying to think of ways to make sure everyone is safe. An example of this is in the government is always trying to find ways to prevent terrorism.
Yeah I agree with Garrett. I think it's a way for them to flex their muscles so to speak without actually starting a conflict. I think it's an intimidation tactic
Over and over in the story, bringing order out of chaos is mentioned. The creation of gods and their powers was, to some extent, a response to social chaos. Power is most effective when you can go beyond just convincing someone of something, but also when you can CREATE someones preferences. By relating the state of the gods to their daily life like their crops for example, the society is more likely to obey the authority because it has immediate consequences.
Hannah- I think that this depends on where you live and how you grew up. There are many places in the world where religion is almost the same as what it was in ancient times. I think the biggest transition is that there are many more religions now due to the diversity of cultures and the newly (or newer) developed areas that are lived in around the world.
Most of the religions today have just one god. Back then they had many. I think that reason for this is that people want to know that there is one main god and that he is a forgiving and merciful god.
I think that it has changed dramatically. When you read history books you hear about all these special rituals and sacrifices. Like today you don't see people sacrificing animals and other people to gods. My knowing of this is very limited though because i have never been to an outside country and see what their culture and religion is like.
It seemed like ancient people used religion to explain what they could not due to their limited understanding. Now, however, we know much more about why things happen in the world around us.
We understand how life is now instead of going to somewhere of unknown.In some cultures their afterlife is considered "scary" and so they don't want to participate with this.
I think they did. Nobody wants to feel dumb or unaware of how things work around them, so I think that they used magic as a way to explain things that they couldn't explain any other way. I think it gave them a false sense of knowledge
I think people created ideas and concepts that they could depend on, such as magic or religion or beliefs of the afterlife, to give them some sort of answer to the questions they really couldn't find an answer to in the world around them.
To me, it's seems like the magic is just the natural forces of the biological world portrayed as the magic of different kinds of gods. So yes, they did use these aspects as an explanation.
Abby Cruz's question-The human characteristics to gods in the ancient cultures has a lot to do with the geography. Perhaps the negative aspects of geography are the reasons why some gods were so mean, jealous, or sad. Perhaps why monotheistic religions have less human characteristics to the one god they worship has to do with the other view of believing that there is one big force that drives everything that ever happens.
To Yael's question- I think that people deep down have a fear of what might happen if they did not live forever, meaning die. Mostly because there is no sure proof of what happens after death.
Bringing order out of chaos is not necessarily good though. Dictators technically do the same thing, but in a much more gruesome way. Order can come in different forms and be produced by different means.
I agree with Justin that "order out of chaos" is not necessarily a good thing. In the Babylonian Religion section of the reading, it says that order emerged out of chaos but then goes on to say after that "Life after death promised no rewards for earthly achievements, just darkness, dust, deprivation, and eternal boredom." To me this is order emerging, because now there is no question as to what happens to you after death, but now death is only viewed as a cruel place and to me that isn't a "good" thing.
Humans strive for immortality because the reality is that we have no idea what happens when we die. Yes, we have ideas, but the reality is uncertain. The longer one lives, it's probable that the more likely they are to have good experiences in that space of time-because there's more time to wait for that aspect. In the aspect of human curiosity, I think humans have interest in seeing the development and changes that have happened over the span of their lives.
This could be due to the fact that more and more people are starting to believe that their prosperity depends on themselves, not due to a greater being, or many for that matter. Also the difficulty and confusion of dealing with a lot of gods could be intimidating to people. The gods themselves want to instill fear in their people so they will serve them forever, which could be another reason that is pushing people to monotheism.
During that comment I was mostly talking about people in the U.S. but there are plenty of people around the rest of the world who still believe in the traditional gods.
Maybe we started to realize how much better 1 God, without out fighting with others, were. With many gods there's not as many order since there's more involvement of people.
Going off the inner circle topic of how the people back then desired immortality, their life spans were a lot shorter than we have today. Due to this do you think the desire for immortality has changed or do we still strive for it today?
I think that they desired immortality a lot more back then because their afterlife was so grim. I know I would want to be immortal if I thought I was going there once I died.
I think striving for immortality, historically, has been been a ruler trying to maintain power. And to maintain power as long as possible, you can't die. This topic has shown up often in history and literature.
Having multiple gods to them also just made sense. They could always label different things, and say that there is a god for that. And therefore, they could worship it when things went good, and curse it when disasters occurred.
In response to Yael, Sydney F. pointed out that we have never heard about death and the afterlife from someone who has experienced it, and we never will. So all we can do is create our own view of it.
Abby said, we were born as curious humans who always want to find answers. Humans naturally want to live as long as they can to learn more.
Whether people believe them or not, there are actually many stories and books written by people who have had "near death experiences," where they have been in a coma or have been thought to die, but they still live. They go into an afterlife of a sort, and come back and write to tell people about their experience. I have read many of them, and they do agree and are similar in many aspects. So there is at least more theory or sorts of evidence of what happens after death than there was back then. But again, it depends on your religion and what you believe.
The bible is a book that gets a lot of hate from people who believe the book is fake, and full of made up stories. Why does this story, along with the Epic of Gilgamesh, not get the that hate that the bible receives? Is the bible more of a religious argument so people get more offensive? Are these Mesopotamian stories not as popular? The bible is in Latin, which is much easier to translate. Why are these Mesopotamian stories unquestioned when the bible is?
To Cal's question I think they had many gods because they had a lot of things that they couldn't explain in the world. They relied on the natural world so much that they felt there had to be higher powers controlling what went on.
If you think of all world religions, there are many gods/goddesses being worshiped across the world. In the US, mainly christianity, yes there is a focus on one god. But if you look at eastern thought, there are many.
yes because people like to shy away from things they don't know and if God is some sort of alien or just a bright star or something people will feel like they can't connect with that God or talk with that God on a personal level.
I think that if a god were to have a human element that it wouldn't make them a god. To me a god is someone or something super natural to man kind and is better and above men.
Yes, this enhances the relationships with the gods because people have something to relate to. Because the gods have a human element, they will also have at least some human emotions, which makes the relationship with the gods easier to maintain.
Yeah I think it does. Most people probably picture the Christian God as a bearded old white dude because that's what they know. That's what they can connect with. They probably don't picture a shapeless form of divinity because they just can't connect with it
if you think about it, the american culture has all kinds of myths. like all the disney movies and story books we've read growing up. we may not call them myths but if you think about it, they are a story, they do relate to our culture, and they leave people thinking. all those characteristics definitely relate to a myth. just something to think about...
yeah I agree that us Americans have all kids of myths like what you said Disney because its not real and we all think it is and the real life is not like those Disney movies at all.
Great discussion everyone. I have to start paying attention to my meeting. Great work. Read the intro. to Gilgamesh, and have a fantastic weekend. GO BRONCOS AND WARRIORS!
People dont argue with the epic of gilgamesh as a religious tale because people no longer worship any of these gods. People view the stories as ridiculous compared to what they believe.
Cal- most people in the U.S. do not worship any of these gods, but in other places of the world the Epic of Gilgamesh may still be a big part of their culture.
Back then, people worshiped gods based off of practicality and social interest. Someone who was born and who lived their for the rest of their lives is more likely to worship a god of water than any other god.
Do the Gods seem more like dictators or do they deserve appeasement from humans? Based on this question, why do religions involve such worship to the god(s)? How similar are these aspects of polytheism to the more common monotheistic beliefs today?
I feel like that it was easier to explain things (Such as a storm) as two different fighting each other, then one god controlling it all. If there is a hurricane, going onto land, then it looks as if the sea is trying to take over the land, which would look like the sea and land gods fighting, instead of one god doing it. Slowly it changed to a monotheistic.
One of the major things science has done is the theory of evolution. Christians believe that god created man and the earth and science argues against that.
Totally agree with what Cal just said. I think that with our knowing and high education today really does effect people's thinking on religion now. I think that people now think logically instead of off of myths.
All it takes is one or more people who are searching for hope and some set of beliefs for them to be believe in, in order to create a religion. The inner circle has also decided that we've lost the density and societal dependence on religion because we have come to think more realistically based off of new technology and discoveries.
I find it strange that a common theme in many religions is an evil god/character. Why do people find it necessary to include an evil icon in stories/beliefs made to uplift and teach good morals? Is it human nature to want to blame others?
Anybody on yet?
ReplyDeleteIM HERE MRS MORITZ
ReplyDeleteGood Morning Cal! :)
ReplyDeleteHola Como Esta!
ReplyDeletethe myths changed because if they were all the same it wouldnt involve everyone because the world is always changing and so are the views on life.
ReplyDeleteBrendan asked if the stories would change based on all the gods having different characteristics, and why?
ReplyDeleteThanks Tori
DeleteDifferent cultures have different views and positions for their gods, even if they have the same name, so I think they adapt the stories to their culture and their uses for the gods.
DeleteI aggree with lily, cultures with multiple gods seem to have a god for different purposes, like gods for love and marraige, and gods that are there to make life easy, but wen you do wrong there are gods of torture and hell that you just don't want to do anything to anger or if you do something else that the good gods basically hand you over to those gods of cruelty, or society can always basically can just always have something to strive for
DeleteHas the discussion began yet?
ReplyDeleteYes we just began.
DeleteIn the Babylonian Religion section, last paragraph, it says "the Babylonians believed that human beings had to make the most of their lives, in a world that lacked security and hope." How do you think this connects to todays society, if at all? Do we lack security and/or hope? Do we strive to make the most of our lives?
ReplyDeleteGreat question Lily. I'll respond once others have been given a chance.
DeleteIn todays world, most religions have a better afterlife. So I dont believe we lack security or hope because we have different religions where afterlife is more of a paradise. Although even with this paradise for an afterlife we still seem to make the most of our present lives.
DeleteI think because a majority of people have a christian based faith, there is hope. There is a very clear expectation of the afterlife that is positive, not so destitute as the mesopotamian idea of the afterlife. In layman's term, more people have faith that when they die, they will go to heaven.
DeleteI do think humans today are more aware that life is short and you have to make the most of it while you are still here, because today there are many different beliefs as to what happens to you after you die, so we don't know anything for sure. The concept of "you only live once" I think is an example of people today trying and experiencing new and exotic things, because they don't know for sure what happens for them after their life.
DeleteI think we struggle to make the most of our lives with the many "blinding" things we go through such as being too focused on money and saying "we'll eventually have the time or money to do that(anything out of the ordinary)." However I see many people going for it and doing things out of their comfort zone too
DeleteI think we still lack security, because you can never have 100% security as long as you have some amount of freedom. I think we have hope though because the world has changed and we have things to look forward to other than just farming for the rest of our lives.
DeleteThe Mesopotamian's probably gave the gods the characteristics they did so they could feel more in touch with them. It would've been hard to connect with something you don't understand.
ReplyDeleteThe gods differ from culture to culture because for each religion, the idea of a god, or what the gods purpose is changes, it is all perspective. In one religion, the god of the air could be one thing, and in an other religion it could mean something completely different, but the religions could be very similar.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think the gods had such an infatuation with power and authority?
ReplyDeleteProbably because they were humanistic. Most people want to get a better situation for themselves
DeleteThe gods, according to Enuma elish, were the only ones to exist in the beginning. They were given all of the power to begin with and did not know anything different. This is why they ended up creating a universe and "man"... "His job will be to serve the gods so that they may rest at ease." (pg. 158)
DeleteBut why Lily did the gods continually compete to be the most powerful and almighty god?
Deletei think that they have so much influence because people didnt know much better. They were brought up thinking it was true so people let the gods influence their lives, and gave the gods the authority.
DeleteIs there a connection between greek gods and Middle Eastern gods? does magic mean power to one? explain?
ReplyDeleteI know for the Middle Eastern gods Magic was very important on the first page it says this "the ability to perform magic tricks was considered proof of the ability to govern the world." The more magic you have the more powerful you are.
DeleteI am confused about why, if the gods are so powerful, they would choose to fight each other rather than just destroy each other quickly and effectively.
ReplyDeleteI think the gods back then were more like humans. So I think it was more of a pride thing. Also if the gods just destroyed each other whenever they got mad at each other then the gods and goddesses would just be in constant war.
DeleteSo then what makes one god more powerful than another? Like in the story it says that one of the gods was a "double god." What decides who is more powerful?
DeleteA lot of the time the gods must prove their power. So if one proves himself more than another, whether it is through magic tricks or strength and power, then they are seen are more powerful.
DeleteHello Bloggers!I was wondering why the sumarian/ babylonian people portrayed the gods to be unpredictable in comparison to egyptian gods such as Isis who was described to be " a loyal and loving mother figure..."?
ReplyDeleteI think that it might have to deal with the flooding, the Nile is much more constant from year to year in where/how long/when it floods, while the Tigris and Euphrates are not as constant, so I feel like the gods portray what creates their society (The river(s)).
DeleteMark asked, how does someone's belief in their gods effect their beliefs and how their culture is created?
ReplyDeleteIf myths were so popular a long time ago why are they not as popular now? Is it education or culture? why?
ReplyDeleteI think that it is due to education. We now know a lot more bout the world's past then we did 15-20 years ago. I think with that information it allows us to have different thinking about myths and if something happened or not.
DeleteTiffani- I think that myths were something that were passed down generationally, probably by mouth usually. Personally I think it is mostly technology that has made myths not so popular. Because we have so much entertainment and social media and gossip about our own lives, myths are not as exciting because information goes around so fast.
DeleteMyths are still popular now, however they come in different forms instead of just religious stories. Education does play a huge role in the number of myths because since time has past--thousands of years since the Enuma elish, the advancement of sciences has allowed us to understand and prove the things that happen around us. Back then, they didn't have that knowledge.
DeleteSome people (Atheists ect.) would say people are still fallowing myths today.
DeleteI think they are less popular to read because many people like to stay with what they know.
DeleteTiffani- the myths are a cultural thing, each culture has a different story or idea that somehow relates to their background. in the middle east, they believed that Mesopotamia was a god given piece of land referring to the rivers that surrounded them. to them that meant the world to their culture Which left them thinking about how does something so great happen to them? they start to think maybe a magical power of some sort. since America is unique and technologically advanced, things change over time and soon the myths start to fade away.
DeleteIn Greek mythology we learned that many Greeks didn't actually believe in the gods and they just told the stories for entertainment purposes. I imagine that the Enuma Elish is similar and it was more of a cultural thing than a religious thing. So I think because they don't have TV or books they would just tell the stories to each other and that's how they spread. That doesn't happen today because we already have so many stories in books and nobody sits around and tells stories orally anymore.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletePeople who believed in these gods typically would try to do anything to please there gods because they knew the gods were quick to anger.
ReplyDeleteDylan - I agree with this and also think that the people thought that their prosperity relied on the gods, as they were the ones who controlled the weather and atmosphere (Ex: Tigris & Euphrates Rivers, soil for crops, etc.)
DeleteTo Brendan's question, the altering of Gods and Goddesses to change the stories of the Sumarian and Babylonian cultures does change the stories, however the main idea is pretty much the same. Since the Sumarians came first, the Babylonians were greatly influenced by their polytheistic religion based on the geographic location. In order for the people of these societies to make sense of the world, they created stories involving the natural forces of the Earth being controlled by different gods for the reason why things happen, which in return involves human worship.
ReplyDeleteIs respect that comes through fear a good thing to have?
ReplyDeleteI think that respect is respect no matter what. However, if it comes through fear there is always a chance that the respect will be lost if they no longer fear the god.
DeleteNo. I think that respect should be earned and be for a good reason. Especially because once you are released from a power/leader who reigns by instilling fear, it seems like most people wouldn't know what to do, and would be so used to living under someone else's strong control that they would gravitate towards that and want it again, even if it is subconsciously.They will not feel comfortable making their own choices for subconscious fear that it could be wrong.
DeleteGarrett: I think its okay in certain situations. You wouldn't want to have respect for someone is making you fearful. On the other hand you would respect someone if they protected you in a fearful situation.
DeleteHannah: I think having unpredictable gods makes you rely on yourself more. If gods either love or hate you, you begin to rely on them.
ReplyDeleteI think magical does mean power to one because they talk about magic and so they mean the same thing basically.
ReplyDeleteI think myths were so popular back then, because those were the stories that they were told and now we have the resources to prove if the myth is true or not.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I agree. Back then they didn't have the knowledge to explain how most of the world worked, so it seems like they just kinda winged it and made up an explanation that made sense to them. Today though advancements in technology and scientific discoveries make a lot of myths seem far fetched
DeleteI think there are modern myths, maybe they are more "out there" like big foot and the lockness monster however there are stories that are told around the world.
ReplyDeleteWen the higharchy creates stories to answer questions that society has that creates problems. Mainly because the changes that the religions devlope just happen to be things that society either respects or fears. Like the nile they respect the water and they also believe that everything they did would please the gods and thats what they lived for, so they did what they could to serve the gods and they feared that if they didn't, important parts of their lives would be altered such as the nile. Sam makes a good point as well as trying to find someone to praise wen things go right, and someone/thing to point a finger at wen things are going wrong.
ReplyDeleteWhile I read the history and background of the middle east, I read the phrase, "order emerged out of chaos," as a repeated phrase. To me this is saying that people depend on something in order to get through life easier. Because that's what religion is, a creation by humans in order for us to be able to depend on something, to get through life easier. A question asked was, "who would create stories like this, who would believe this?" It only takes one person, who has some power over everyone else, who has a strong belief, and a group of people who need hope.
ReplyDeleteI think people today try living like its their last day. I think we do lack security and/ or hope due to the idea of always trying to think of ways to make sure everyone is safe. An example of this is in the government is always trying to find ways to prevent terrorism.
ReplyDeleteThey respect magic because it seems extraordinary and nobody understands it so it gets respected.
ReplyDeleteIs it that they don't understand or they are scared of it though?
DeleteWhy do you think Marduk "revealing the extent of his power" is making a garment vanish? Why are magic tricks such a big deal in the world of the gods?
ReplyDeleteIt is just to give the others a taste of what he can do without exerting himself. He shows how easily he can manipulate the things around him.
DeleteYeah I agree with Garrett. I think it's a way for them to flex their muscles so to speak without actually starting a conflict. I think it's an intimidation tactic
DeleteOver and over in the story, bringing order out of chaos is mentioned. The creation of gods and their powers was, to some extent, a response to social chaos. Power is most effective when you can go beyond just convincing someone of something, but also when you can CREATE someones preferences. By relating the state of the gods to their daily life like their crops for example, the society is more likely to obey the authority because it has immediate consequences.
ReplyDeleteThis is a great observation. I think most changes occur
Deletebecause of a crisis or "social chaos" situation.
What is the relationship between Apsu and Mumma?
ReplyDeleteHow has religion changed from ancient times to now? What has caused this transition?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure religion has changed, but people are more aware of different types of religion.
DeleteI think religion has changed from ancient to now is because before they didn't have as much freedom and now we do.
DeleteHannah- I think that this depends on where you live and how you grew up. There are many places in the world where religion is almost the same as what it was in ancient times. I think the biggest transition is that there are many more religions now due to the diversity of cultures and the newly (or newer) developed areas that are lived in around the world.
DeleteMost of the religions today have just one god. Back then they had many. I think that reason for this is that people want to know that there is one main god and that he is a forgiving and merciful god.
DeleteI think that it has changed dramatically. When you read history books you hear about all these special rituals and sacrifices. Like today you don't see people sacrificing animals and other people to gods. My knowing of this is very limited though because i have never been to an outside country and see what their culture and religion is like.
DeleteIt seemed like ancient people used religion to explain what they could not due to their limited understanding. Now, however, we know much more about why things happen in the world around us.
DeleteYael asked, why have humans always wanted to be immortal and live forever?
ReplyDeleteI don't want to live forever! :( I'm shooting for 95ish.
DeleteWe understand how life is now instead of going to somewhere of unknown.In some cultures their afterlife is considered "scary" and so they don't want to participate with this.
DeleteDid the people who believed these stories use magic to explain what they couldn't explain due to their limited knowledge of how the world worked
ReplyDeleteI think they did. Nobody wants to feel dumb or unaware of how things work around them, so I think that they used magic as a way to explain things that they couldn't explain any other way. I think it gave them a false sense of knowledge
DeleteI think people created ideas and concepts that they could depend on, such as magic or religion or beliefs of the afterlife, to give them some sort of answer to the questions they really couldn't find an answer to in the world around them.
DeleteI think that people wanted to have a story to go by instead of the "unknown". They didnt want to think that everything just appeared.
DeleteTo me, it's seems like the magic is just the natural forces of the biological world portrayed as the magic of different kinds of gods. So yes, they did use these aspects as an explanation.
DeleteAbby Cruz's question-The human characteristics to gods in the ancient cultures has a lot to do with the geography. Perhaps the negative aspects of geography are the reasons why some gods were so mean, jealous, or sad. Perhaps why monotheistic religions have less human characteristics to the one god they worship has to do with the other view of believing that there is one big force that drives everything that ever happens.
ReplyDelete"Life is kind of like a drug," -Mark Carlson
ReplyDeleteWhat???
DeleteWe are addicted to living instead of dead.
DeleteTo Yael's question- I think that people deep down have a fear of what might happen if they did not live forever, meaning die. Mostly because there is no sure proof of what happens after death.
ReplyDeleteBringing order out of chaos is not necessarily good though. Dictators technically do the same thing, but in a much more gruesome way. Order can come in different forms and be produced by different means.
ReplyDeleteI think that bringing order is always a good thing but the process of how it is brought is where it can come into question
DeleteI agree with Justin that "order out of chaos" is not necessarily a good thing. In the Babylonian Religion section of the reading, it says that order emerged out of chaos but then goes on to say after that "Life after death promised no rewards for earthly achievements, just darkness, dust, deprivation, and eternal boredom." To me this is order emerging, because now there is no question as to what happens to you after death, but now death is only viewed as a cruel place and to me that isn't a "good" thing.
DeleteI agree with justin, order can come out of unjust ways. In the story they liked to use terror. Can order have different definitions?
DeleteHumans strive for immortality because the reality is that we have no idea what happens when we die. Yes, we have ideas, but the reality is uncertain. The longer one lives, it's probable that the more likely they are to have good experiences in that space of time-because there's more time to wait for that aspect. In the aspect of human curiosity, I think humans have interest in seeing the development and changes that have happened over the span of their lives.
ReplyDeleteCal asked why religions in this era were more polytheistic and now, more modern religions are more monotheistic.
ReplyDeleteThis could be due to the fact that more and more people are starting to believe that their prosperity depends on themselves, not due to a greater being, or many for that matter. Also the difficulty and confusion of dealing with a lot of gods could be intimidating to people. The gods themselves want to instill fear in their people so they will serve them forever, which could be another reason that is pushing people to monotheism.
DeleteDuring that comment I was mostly talking about people in the U.S. but there are plenty of people around the rest of the world who still believe in the traditional gods.
DeleteMaybe we started to realize how much better 1 God, without out fighting with others, were. With many gods there's not as many order since there's more involvement of people.
DeleteGoing off the inner circle topic of how the people back then desired immortality, their life spans were a lot shorter than we have today. Due to this do you think the desire for immortality has changed or do we still strive for it today?
ReplyDeleteI think that they desired immortality a lot more back then because their afterlife was so grim. I know I would want to be immortal if I thought I was going there once I died.
DeleteI think the desire for immorality has changed because we don't want to do bad things we want to live for tomorrow and live our lives to the fullest.
DeleteI think striving for immortality, historically, has been been a ruler trying to maintain power. And to maintain power as long as possible, you can't die. This topic has shown up often in history and literature.
ReplyDeleteHaving multiple gods to them also just made sense. They could always label different things, and say that there is a god for that. And therefore, they could worship it when things went good, and curse it when disasters occurred.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Yael, Sydney F. pointed out that we have never heard about death and the afterlife from someone who has experienced it, and we never will. So all we can do is create our own view of it.
ReplyDeleteAbby said, we were born as curious humans who always want to find answers. Humans naturally want to live as long as they can to learn more.
Whether people believe them or not, there are actually many stories and books written by people who have had "near death experiences," where they have been in a coma or have been thought to die, but they still live. They go into an afterlife of a sort, and come back and write to tell people about their experience. I have read many of them, and they do agree and are similar in many aspects. So there is at least more theory or sorts of evidence of what happens after death than there was back then. But again, it depends on your religion and what you believe.
DeleteThe bible is a book that gets a lot of hate from people who believe the book is fake, and full of made up stories. Why does this story, along with the Epic of Gilgamesh, not get the that hate that the bible receives? Is the bible more of a religious argument so people get more offensive? Are these Mesopotamian stories not as popular? The bible is in Latin, which is much easier to translate. Why are these Mesopotamian stories unquestioned when the bible is?
ReplyDeleteI would say looking at the large difference in people worshiping these two different religions, that is most likely the reason why.
DeleteTo Cal's question I think they had many gods because they had a lot of things that they couldn't explain in the world. They relied on the natural world so much that they felt there had to be higher powers controlling what went on.
ReplyDeleteIf you think of all world religions, there are many gods/goddesses being worshiped across the world. In the US, mainly christianity, yes there is a focus on one god. But if you look at eastern thought, there are many.
ReplyDeleteIs having a human element in a god important for people to connect with that god?
ReplyDeleteyes because people like to shy away from things they don't know and if God is some sort of alien or just a bright star or something people will feel like they can't connect with that God or talk with that God on a personal level.
DeleteI think that if a god were to have a human element that it wouldn't make them a god. To me a god is someone or something super natural to man kind and is better and above men.
DeleteYes, this enhances the relationships with the gods because people have something to relate to. Because the gods have a human element, they will also have at least some human emotions, which makes the relationship with the gods easier to maintain.
DeleteYeah I think it does. Most people probably picture the Christian God as a bearded old white dude because that's what they know. That's what they can connect with. They probably don't picture a shapeless form of divinity because they just can't connect with it
Deleteyes I think so, it makes it easier for people to worship them and believe they are real
DeleteYes because this helps people "feel" connected with him. Without having this human element then people aren't going to have any reason for faith.
Deleteif you think about it, the american culture has all kinds of myths. like all the disney movies and story books we've read growing up. we may not call them myths but if you think about it, they are a story, they do relate to our culture, and they leave people thinking. all those characteristics definitely relate to a myth. just something to think about...
ReplyDeleteyeah I agree that us Americans have all kids of myths like what you said Disney because its not real and we all think it is and the real life is not like those Disney movies at all.
DeleteGreat discussion everyone. I have to start paying attention to my meeting. Great work. Read the intro. to Gilgamesh, and have a fantastic weekend. GO BRONCOS AND WARRIORS!
ReplyDeletego peyton
Delete#PFM
DeletePeople dont argue with the epic of gilgamesh as a religious tale because people no longer worship any of these gods. People view the stories as ridiculous compared to what they believe.
ReplyDeleteCal- most people in the U.S. do not worship any of these gods, but in other places of the world the Epic of Gilgamesh may still be a big part of their culture.
DeleteBack then, people worshiped gods based off of practicality and social interest. Someone who was born and who lived their for the rest of their lives is more likely to worship a god of water than any other god.
ReplyDeleteDo the Gods seem more like dictators or do they deserve appeasement from humans? Based on this question, why do religions involve such worship to the god(s)? How similar are these aspects of polytheism to the more common monotheistic beliefs today?
ReplyDeleteI think historically people believed in multiple gods because they've needed something to depend on in many aspects in their lives.
ReplyDeleteI feel like that it was easier to explain things (Such as a storm) as two different fighting each other, then one god controlling it all. If there is a hurricane, going onto land, then it looks as if the sea is trying to take over the land, which would look like the sea and land gods fighting, instead of one god doing it. Slowly it changed to a monotheistic.
DeleteHow does one mortal become a "favorite" of a god?
ReplyDeleteAnd what decides which human the god is allowed to help?
DeleteHow has science changed religion and what people believe in?
ReplyDeleteScience has explained a lot of what people attributed to gods in the past
DeleteOne of the major things science has done is the theory of evolution. Christians believe that god created man and the earth and science argues against that.
DeleteTotally agree with what Cal just said. I think that with our knowing and high education today really does effect people's thinking on religion now. I think that people now think logically instead of off of myths.
ReplyDeleteAll it takes is one or more people who are searching for hope and some set of beliefs for them to be believe in, in order to create a religion.
ReplyDeleteThe inner circle has also decided that we've lost the density and societal dependence on religion because we have come to think more realistically based off of new technology and discoveries.
I would guess very few people today live exactly by their religion. Almost nobody has no doubts in their life.
ReplyDeletereligion is based off culture and ethnic background thats why there are so many religions. people believe what they want to believe!
ReplyDeleteI find it strange that a common theme in many religions is an evil god/character. Why do people find it necessary to include an evil icon in stories/beliefs made to uplift and teach good morals? Is it human nature to want to blame others?
ReplyDelete